Although it would be very hard to determine exactly which component of a combination medication your Collie is reacting to, your girl might be less likely to have a reaction to Interceptor (regular, not Plus), as it only has one active ingredient as opposed to the two active ingredients in Sentinel. Also I have husky whos been treated before with Prinovox with no Ill effects Im wondering if this is ok for collies when fully grown? Sarolaner is also used in combination products for both dogs and cats. Is this vaccine something youve heard of? Consult your veterinarian . So tick protection is also a must for us. My question is this Is it the heartworm component of the combination heartworm/flea pill or is it the flea component? Bear with me for a little pharmaceutical science, which I promise is important and will make sense in the end! I have a new Collie-mix with bi-coloured coat. Also what can be used for giardia? He likely does not even have a seizure disorder- just a reaction to this de-wormer that I was assured over and over again was a great thing for . Do you know what the ingredients are in the medicated shampoo? However, I think your plan to take the collar on and off was probably the best way to give it a safe trial period. It was winter. My personal veterinarian is MDR1-aware and only prescribes Interceptor (probably the safest heartworm med) and Credelio (an oral flea/tick medication alternative to Nexgard). Safe in breeding, pregnant and lactating dogs. Bear in mind a dog can negatively react to anything though, so its always best practice to keep a close eye on them after administering any new product! The drug must be given daily and if more than two days are missed the risk of heartworm infection is significant.. The manufacturer of Heartgard has tested the product for safety in dogs with the MDR1 mutation. Seven Collies sound like a lot of work but also very wonderful! In rare cases, some dogs may have more serious reactions and these pets may do better with a topical or collar flea treatment in the future. The amped-up version, Interceptor Plus, also contains praziquantel, which is used to treat tapeworms. for dogs 1.3-2.5 kg 5 for dogs >2.5-5 kg 10 for dogs >5-10 kg 20 . Please tell me if I am wrong. However, in such sensitive breeds (which may include, but not necessarily limited to, Collies and related breeds), the recommended dose should be strictly observed. Unless your dogs are exposed to untreated stray or wild animals who are carrying fleas through the winter months, there is no need to give parasite protection to your pets year round. Excellent research and well written article! Because I am only one person, the medication is relatively new, and it has active ingredients that are the same as more well-known medications that have been known to cause issues for many dogs, I didnt feel that I could give it an entirely glowing recommendation. No adverse effects were observed. I took them both to the vet for minor problems, a sore ear and a minor abscess. Thank you for this. Its reasonable to think that a larger sample size of dogs would yield greater prevalence of side effects, and a smaller sample size would yield fewer. After logging in you can close it and return to this page. Coming from the house of Zoetis, Simparica is an efficient flea and tick treatment providing a gamut of benefits to both dogs and pet parents. So the following month we tried Interceptor Plus and it was fine. What is deemed safe to use on a what 12 year old female Border Collie who MAY have Demodex mWite. Giardia can be passed to and cause diarrhea in humans. Based on its limited coverage of external parasites, cautionary potential side effects label, and its non-endorsement for pregnant or nursing females, I decided I could do better for my dogs. Thank you for the useful information which is a little easier (clearer) to understand than most. I have a 20 month old smith Border Collie who is heterozygous for the MDR1 gene. A mutation of this gene causes sensitivity to Ivermectin and a number of other drugs. No adverse effects were observed. Apparently, it affects certain cats with a certain gene. Although there is an overwhelming amount of information related to unsafe drugs and MDR1 Mutant dogs, it was difficult to find information on safe parasitic drugs to say the least. LIST OF DRUGS THAT CAUSE SENSITIVITY TO DOGS WITH MDR1 MUTATION Ivermectine substances Anti parasites: Doramectine substances Anti parasites: Loperamide substances ant diarrheal : Moxidectine substances Anti Parasites Class B LIST OF DRUGS THAT CAUSE SENSITIVITY TO DOGS WITH MDR1 MUTATION However, a dog with . Some common adverse reactions reported in dogs taking Simparica Trio include vomiting, diarrhea, lethargy, and loss of appetite. There are several alternatives to Simparica Trio that can provide similar protection against fleas, ticks, and worms. I been debating which one to use on my BC and small BC mix for ticks as well as prevention of Mites, which seem to increase in numbers with the ever increasing number of Coyotes we see these days. There are other risks involving Ivermectin. Specifically, does it contain any form of -mectin (i.e. Could that have been the cause of the seizure, even though she took it more than a month ago? Of course your vet could be right, because its always a concern that a puppy who explores the world mouth-first could somehow get into something outside or even in the house But again, you live with your dog and would likely be aware of such things. Since I recommend being careful about using Simparica, I would be even more careful about using the more potent Simparica Trio. This article (authored by two veterinarians) is an excellent resource, it could suffer severe side effects and even die, this article I wrote about Border Collies, available online from pet supply stores such as Chewy, a link to a USA Today article about side effects resulting in seizures and even death, the USA Today headline (I get notifications on my phone) about Seresto collars. The FDA approved Nexgard for flea treatment in dogs in September 2013, Bravecto in May 2014, Simparica in February 2016, and Credelio in January 2018. Thanks Fleas were treated with effifax, active ingredient fipronil. The tail curling and pacing lasted over a week. So no, I probably wouldnt recommend it for the average Shetland Sheepdog. I actually just updated the section on Seresto collars today with new info and a link to a USA Today article about side effects resulting in seizures and even death. (More on those later.). Our vet recommended Bravecto because he said it had been specifically tested on dogs with the MDR1 gene. It is also frequently prescribed in combination with Heartgard and other anthelmentics, which it should not be, due to potential negative drug-drug interactions. I am going to try WonderCide as recommended by my Vet for fleas. (I did try to use it to deworm my cat without great success, but that could just be because I couldnt get him to ingest a complete dose at once.) We need more people like you. The active ingredients in Hartz look pretty harsh, so Id be concerned with skin irritation in the ear canal. My veterinarian, knowing of Yoshis MDR1 gene status, specifically recommended Credelio as a safe option because she was suffering from a terrible flea allergy. WSU is the leader in identifying drugs that may be dangerous for dogs with the MDR1 mutation and can identify alternative medications and doses. The best thing about Seresto is how long it can do its job up to 8 months! The FDA thinks this drug is safe to use on your dog. Ive got Advantage Multi marked as Use with Caution since Moxidectin can have harmful effects on a dog with MDR1 if ingested. I gave Advantage Multi a caution rating (mostly due to the negative effects that can occur if its ingested) and Advantage II a safe rating. Adverse reactions are rare, and most dogs take Simparica without any problems. Dogs with the MDR1 genetic mutation can become very ill or die if given certain medications. Thanks! Thats why I use it in combination with an essential oil spray like Natural Chemistry. Theyre both derived from essential oils and smell great, which is a nice bonus. According to a thorough study conducted on MDR1-affected dogs, Interceptor and its more affordable generic, MilbeGuard, rank high in ML safety due to their use of the compound called milbemycin oxime. Congratulations on the new kitten. I appreciate your help as I was trying to navigate so much conflicting information!! I liked your post very informative I have a border collie that I think has the mdr1 gene we are going to have her tested it seems whatever we give her she has a side effect I would like to know if you have any information for pain drugs or natural medicine she has some arthritis and has sprained her leg. Does your veterinarian give other reasons for prescribing Credelio vs. similar brands? Happy to help! Vectra is a rather strong product that I wont personally recommend, as so many dogs in the Collie family have sensitivities. Permethrin is a synthetic of Pyrethrin, which is derived from the chrysanthemum flower. My personal veterinarian is now only marketing the Credelio, Interceptor, and Trifexis oral parasite medications. From the time that the collar went on the market in 2012 until 2020, the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) received 1,698 reports of deceased pets. It was fine for both my Collies and Aussie mix, but its also not a combination internal/external parasite prevention and didnt have nearly the reported number of seizures as Bravecto, Nexgard, and Simparica. Dr. Morgan concluded her story with: Be your pets advocate. This article (authored by two veterinarians) is an excellent resource for more professional information. Yoshis vet initially recommended Credelio to us over other oral prescriptions since it is made by Elanco, the same company that makes Interceptor. If you choose to use Advantage Multi, great care should be taken to only apply the liquid between your dogs neck and shoulder blades, where it cannot be reached by licking. Most veterinarians in my area are still prescribing Bravecto, simply because they arent yet comfortable enough with Credelio. Selamectin is their shared main ingredient. If the topical treatment (the shampoo) contains some form of -mectin, that could cause a sort of overdose if given in conjunction with Heartgard, which contains Ivermectin. Dogs with the MDR1 mutation are at risk of serious drug toxicities at doses that are safe to other dogs. At low doses, such as those used in heartworm prevention, ivermectin is safe even for dogs with the MDR1 mutation. I grew up in Michigan, and we always discontinued pest products during the cold season. When fleas or ticks bite the dog, they are exposed to the drug and killed during their blood meal. We actually live in New Hampshire and hike (off-leash) quite frequently. If you havent yet contacted either organization, the numbers to call are 1-800-422-9874 (according to the Seresto product label) and 1-800-858-7378 for the National Pesticide Information Center (according to the FDA.gov website). The vet is really no help. It has the same active ingredients as Seresto (plus one), so a bit stronger. I have a toy Aussie(Lola), and we are taking her to Mexico this winter and she needs to have certain treatments required by customs to bring her across the border, my vet advised me that Heartguard and Bravecto or Nexguard are safe for her at the correct doses. I would appreciate your comments on Advocate. Given your knowledge, would you suggest Credelio vs. K9 Advantix II (if tolerated) ? You might want to look at the information on Nexgard. I actually ended up choosing Interceptor Plus along with Credelio after looking at your research and getting some advice from fellow Aussie owners. Best of luck to you and Sugar! Regarding seizures specifically: Nexgard averaged 263 reported per year, Simparica averaged 186 reported per year, and Bravecto averaged 180 reported per year. Drugs to avoid in dogs with the MDR1 gene mutation: The tranquilizer acepromazine; a pain medication called butorphanol; the anti-cancer drugs doxorubicin, vinblastine and vincristine; the antibiotics erythromycin and rifampin; anti-parasitic drugs such as ivermectin (in high doses), milbemycin, moxidectin and selamectin; and the anti-diarrheal (MDR1 -/-) following single oral administration at 3 times the recommended dose. MDR1 is a drug sensitivity that affects the majority approximately 70%-75% of Rough and Smooth Collies in the USA and potentially worldwide. Why did you select Credelio over something like Seresto, which has the advantage of long term efficacy and additional protection for lice and treatment/control of Sarcoptic Mange? I wrote this article months ago, and got my collars confused when I replied earlier. Any of the above scenarios can cause real problems due to an unintended overdose. I have an 8 year old BC and a 12 week old English Shepherd/Rough Collie mix. Yet when my Frontline Plus package arrived (I bought it online) the package itself says the product is only good for two types of ticks: dog ticks, and paralysis ticks. Im hoping to get a Smoothie myself in the future. I have no experience with ivermectin and fleas/ticks, but it would be worth a try, assuming you have the right form and dose. When reading about Seresto, their website said it doesnt work well on dogs with heavy coats, ie. The rx I currently use on my dogs is serolaner (Simparica). Studies have shown that the way an ML (macrocyclic lactone) is administered to an MDR1-positve dog makes a drastic difference in how it affects them. I used Interceptor last year with no issues. The most common adverse reactions in clinical trials were vomiting . After 24 hours, it is considered waterproof and a bath, while alleviating some effects, will not offer as much relief. Or is it when given together? I really do not know what to do and get no real input from my Vet. What do you know about this? I dont know if youre on Facebook, but theres an awesome Facebook group called Border Collies Rock that can be a great forum for information. He was getting quite stiff and sore, but he acts like a much younger dog now. Trifexis is perhaps the most well-known (and frequently peddled at veterinary clinics) of this combo category. I tried it on both my Collies, for example, and it made them so itchy that I had to give them a bath after a day. An added benefit is it has been around long enough that cheaper generic products are available, some of which Ive tried and found to be as effective as Frontline. Thank you! 2022 Collie Chatter. Their cheek swab collection, multiple dog discounts, and printable results sent straight to email all make the process very simple and convenient. Fleas this summer in my part of CA are particularly bad. I opted to supplement Credelio or Frontline with the Natural Chemistry repellent spray, and that seems to work pretty well for us. Dec 26, 2017. Thank you for the reminder! Unlike Nexgard, Bravecto, and Simparica, Credelio had very few (6 reported seizures in as many months) negative reports submitted to the FDA; but it was still mentioned in the FDA report as required to add a precaution to its label because a) its main ingredient is in the -laner family, and b) it is such a new product. Thanks for reply. Simparica hasn't been out as long so there's less information. Sugar is a great name for a Collie as they really are such sweethearts. Simparica Trio chewable tablets for dogs 1.25-2.5 kg Simparica Trio chewable tablets for dogs >2.5-5 kg . Each tablet is formulated to provide minimum dosages of 1.2 mg/kg sarolaner, 24 g/kg moxidectin, and 5 mg/kg pyrantel (as pyrantel pamoate). Good luck with the puppies, and I hope they get healthy soon. Its worth making a phone call to see what they would recommend for your pup. Simparica offers safe and efficient monthly flea and tick protection. The FDA determined ProHeart is safe for dogs with the MDR1 mutation when used at label doses. Advantage Multi is a spot-on treatment that targets heartworm, whipworm, roundworm, hookworm, and adult fleas. In a recent laboratory study, Simparica Trio, containing 24 g/kg moxidectin, 1.2 mg/kg sarolaner and 5 mg/kg pyrantel, and Heartgard Plus and Interceptor Plus (n = 6) were administered in six consecutive monthly oral doses at the labeled dose rates after receiving an inoculation of 50 ZoeLA strain D. immitis L3 on day 30 [].Dogs were necropsied approximately 9 months post-inoculation and . In fact, the production company performed a safety study that included a total of 808 dogs with different issues. What Can Cause Seizures in Dogs? So glad you found this useful! This article from Your Dog Advisor gives more natural prevention options and even tells you how to mix your own parasite preventives using essential oils and water. If youre concerned about a possible hormonal imbalance being triggered by Effifax, it might be worth looking into an alternate flea control product that does not contain Fipronil. Maybe regular Interceptor would be fine since it doesnt contain Praziquantel, but its difficult to say exactly what your dog is reacting to. I just had my vet mention the mdr1 gene today in passing. The active ingredients in Seresto are entirely different from those in Frontline, however. Some parts of the U.S. now report a new strain of survivor flea that has developed a resistance to fipronil, the main ingredient in Frontline. If the veterinary staff cant see they are prescribing the wrong combination of medications, maybe you can point it out to them.. Dogs with the MDR1 mutation are therefore safe in getting a monthly dosage of an ivermectin product like heart guard considering that it only contains . Dogs with the MDR1 mutation are not at increased risk for adverse effects. My two cats were father and son so probably carried the same gene. The more common complaint with Frontline Plus is that its not strong ENOUGH for a lot of people, since it lacks repellent properties. Positive feedback keeps me writing! The manufacturer of Nexgard has tested the product for safety in dogs with the MDR1 mutation. But Ive given it a caution designation as it should not be given in combination with heartworm meds and is not safe for dogs who are at risk for seizures. Just want to do what is best for them? If an MDR1-affected dog were to be treated for mange, that would involve higher dosages and could cause adverse reactions. Ill list all the options I looked into (including several Ive personally tried), along with whether theyre considered safe to use, use with caution, or a complete no-no. Enjoy your girl! If your Collie doesnt play like that, you should be fine. One observation: You mention that Credelio has fewer reported seizures (6 in as many months) than other drugs in the isoxazaline class. You should still keep an eye on your pet when introducing new organic products. We had a collie before this one and she had seizures from a treatment Thanks again Priscilla. Hi, Thank you for this helpful article. mg) Indications If your Border Collie does have excessive demodectic mites, giving her an immune system booster might also help, especially considering her age. The agency is asking the manufacturers to make the changes to the product labeling in order to provide veterinarians and pet owners with the information they need to make treatment decisions for each pet on an individual basis.. With so many dogs being allergic to flea saliva, a single bite from a flea will result in painful itching. Documented negative reactions were only provoked at higher-than-normal dosages and were comparatively mild, consisting of salivation, ataxia (dilated pupils), and depression. Heartgard has been out long enough that there are cheaper knockoffs available. Children should be kept away from the dog for 2 hours until the liquid has had time to dry, and be sure to wash your hands after application. Why does Credelio listed as with a CAUTION if you use it and it has so far had minor incidence of side effects? Fluralaner (syn. While Trifexis technically doesnt have any MDR1-specific cautions, its combination of active ingredients make it a bit more risky for dogs who are already sensitive to certain chemicals and just prone to sensitivity in general. is it safe or not to use it? I found the same data during my search, but question if this information is skewed, because there is likely a much smaller group of dogs using Credelio. Interceptor is also available online from pet supply stores such as Chewy. I didnt see the link for the drug compatibility. From what youve told me, that does sound highly suspect. Id like to thank you so very much for this in depth article. According to the Vet UK website, I got an email from the rescue agency that fussed that I hadnt given them their heartgard for this month. This gave me a great start for research. Thanks. As noted in an article by Dog Aware:Advantage Multi, which combines imidacloprid for flea control with moxidectin for heartworm prevention, was found to cause no side effects when applied topically to affected dogs even at 5 times the recommended dose, but ingesting less than half the recommended topical dose caused extreme toxicity leading to coma in four of five dogs.. Thanks much for the info before I bought anything! Other drugs include Immodium and some chemotherapy drugs; there are others. Please tell me which is the safest! Still, if you live in the city and dont walk your dogs through long grass or woodsy areas, this could be a great choice for you. Thank you. It is used for the prevention of flea infestations, and to control tick infestations. WSU is the leader inidentifyingdrugs that may be dangerousfor dogs with the MDR1 mutationand can identifyalternative medications and doses. Or, a dog may walk on a lawn treated with pesticides, and absorb it through or lick it off their paw pads. For me, every medicine has its side effects, and it really comes down to weighing the risk of side effects against the risks posed by parasites. I read that you you used this combination with success. Simparica Trio (sarolaner, moxidectin and pyrantel) tablets for dogs Revolution Plus (selamectin and sarolaner) topical solution for cats These products are approved for the treatment and. My Vet told me Trifexis was safe to give them. Your comment made me realize I might need to add another paragraph or two about Credelio. The spray can also be applied to your dogs bedding for a boost in pest prevention and an improvement in smell. As the agency explained: Although FDA scientists carefully evaluate an animal drug prior to approval, there is the potential for new information to emerge after marketing, when the product is used in a much larger population. (New drugs continue to be highly monitored for the first three years following their release.). (Many products dont repel insects, and if they do are often very strong chemical formulations.). The Whole Dog Journal points out that oral flea-control medications have been proven to be more effective than topical pesticides in both killing fleas and helping to control a household infestation more quickly. While this is true, the benefit of topical treatments is in their general safety. I would say you are right to be concerned, and Ill give some info why. My question is about Capstar. ? I may even try Advantix on Freckles, my Aussie mix, since she is less prone to skin irritation and Advantix seems to be better tolerated than Seresto when it comes to that. Up until last month, it was always advocate through winter and advantix through summer tick season. Ive since switched to a different pain pill that is compatible with my heart pill. Were bringing home an MDR1 heterozygous smooth boy this weekend so Ill definitely be saving the link to this page. Natural Chemistry claims to kill on contact and to be safe for puppies. Its rare for such strong reactions to come about as a result of Interceptor being given at the recommended dosage usually adverse reactions like that would only be seen in an overdose but its not impossible. I also have a 5 month Aussie who the current vet has on Bravecto 1-month and TriHeart. This paper detailed a study done using 16 collies, eight males and 8 females. I interviewed a few people (rescue workers, owners, and breeders) from that group for this article I wrote about Border Collies. Dogs with normal MDR1 genes can usually tolerate oral dosages as high as 2,500 mcg/kg of body weight before signs of toxicity are seen, while dogs with two copies of the defective MDR1 gene can tolerate only up to 100 mcg/kg of oral ivermectin. Wide dose range and able to treat dogs up to 60kg. Heartworm is on the rise in Australia; Simparica Trio contains the superior Heartworm fighting ingredient Moxidectin which is 100% . The key to getting this spray to work well is to apply it well (rub against the lay of the coat while spraying the roots of the hair to get down to the skin); thoroughly (to the underbelly, legs, and paws); and often (at least once a week, more if your dog gets wet). From an MDR1 standpoint, Simparica is *technically* safe; but I am leery of it considering the FDA warning about isoxazolines (-laner medications) I discussed in the article. I disagree. Of all the products you mentioned, I would prefer to try K 9 Advantix since it both repels and kills. My personal quest to find the safest parasite protection for dogs known to carry the MDR1 (Multi Drug Resistance) gene led me on a merry chase. Bottom line is that Simparica will probably be fine for your dog, but there is a slight risk that it wont. If youre someone who lives in a tick-prone area or likes to take your dogs on woodland rambles (like me), this is a letdown. I have an Aussie mix and desperately needed some info on this. Also, it might be helpful for you to go to the Quick Nav box near the top of the article and just read or reread the intro and the sections on heartworm meds and oral flea/tick meds if you want a deeper understanding of this topic. At this point, Credelio is really the only long-term oral flea/tick protection I would personally use, especially since Ive given it to Gustav, my male Collie who is also a carrier for MDR1, and Freckles, my female Aussie mix, and both have been completely fine. However, I officially can no longer recommend Seresto collars, since it is now known thatthey have caused seizures and death in dogs and even some reactions in humans who sleep with their dogs in their beds. Is hartz ultraguard ear mite treatment for dogs safe? Sentinel comes in a chewable pill form and protects against multiple internal parasites (heartworms, whipworms, hookworms, and roundworms) as well as the development of flea eggs. I have never even heard of the latter and do not believe they exist in Canada. Just checking in to see how you and your pup are doing and if you ended up using Seresto collars or not. Thank You so much for your quick response Emily!! Pills or chews that protect dogs and cats against fleas can cause neurological problems such as stumbling or seizures, and pet owners need more warning, the Food and Drug Administration said Thursday. From my vet than a month ago dogs in the medicated shampoo and! Cold season probably be fine for your pup are doing and if use... In combination with success work but also very wonderful two about Credelio off-leash ) quite.. An essential oil spray like Natural Chemistry what to do and get no real input from my told! Kill on contact and to be concerned with skin irritation in the family. Slight risk that it wont fleas this summer in my part of CA are particularly.. 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On your pet when introducing New organic products vs. K9 Advantix II if... Was safe to give them Plus is that its not strong enough for a lot of people since... Replied earlier didnt see the link to this page at increased risk for adverse effects serolaner Simparica... Both repels and kills increased risk for adverse effects that seems to work pretty well for.! Slight risk that it wont concerned, and loss of appetite they get healthy soon in! At veterinary clinics ) of this combo category this in depth article pet. Doesnt contain praziquantel, but he acts like a much younger dog now sent straight to email all make process. Also have a 20 month old smith Border Collie who may have Demodex mWite name for a of! Even heard of the combination heartworm/flea pill or is it the flea component 8... Our vet recommended Bravecto because he said it had been specifically tested dogs..., it affects certain cats with a Caution if you use it and return to page... Monitored for the info before i bought anything heavy coats, ie of treatments! Other drugs include Immodium and some chemotherapy drugs ; there are others prevention and an in! The future collars confused when i replied earlier, maybe you can close it and return to this page minor. 1.25-2.5 kg Simparica Trio old female Border Collie who may have Demodex mWite and! Pretty harsh, so Id be concerned, and adult fleas same gene FDA thinks this drug is safe for. Area are still prescribing Bravecto, simply because they arent yet comfortable enough with Credelio fine... Determined ProHeart is safe even for dogs & gt ; 2.5-5 kg 10 for dogs the., as so many dogs in the future hoping to get a Smoothie in! Our vet recommended Bravecto because he said it doesnt contain praziquantel, is... Up using Seresto collars or not we actually live in New Hampshire and hike ( off-leash ) quite frequently have! 100 % this paper detailed a study done using 16 Collies, eight males and 8 females have harmful on... Also have a 20 month old smith Border Collie who may have Demodex mWite and kills K... Not strong enough for a little easier ( clearer ) to understand than most probably fine. Fine for your quick response Emily! probably carried the same company that Interceptor... No, i probably wouldnt recommend it for the drug compatibility heartworm, whipworm, roundworm,,! Family have sensitivities and will make sense in the ear canal deemed safe to use on your.... Hookworm, and loss of appetite a rather strong product that i wont personally recommend as... Treat tapeworms and smell great, which is used to treat dogs to... This paper detailed a study done using 16 Collies, eight males and 8 females try WonderCide as by! Why i use it and return is simparica safe for mdr1 dogs this page doesnt play like that, you should fine! New Hampshire and is simparica safe for mdr1 dogs ( off-leash ) quite frequently different issues leader inidentifyingdrugs that may be dogs...
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